Comments on: Startups and Simon Legree

By: Clint

Clint — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 06:58:56 +0000

On the other hand, DHH (David) is an engineer, so he knows how an Engineer feels. Just like Joel Spolsky. That’s why you heard different opinions from DHH and Spolsky than from Arrington, Jason and Scoble.

By: Clint

Clint — Sun, 09 Mar 2008 06:58:02 +0000

See, the problem here is that all these Executives that do all the talking, not the Software Engineer that actually does the working.

Maybe someday you should ask the Software Engineer to express their feeling instead of these Executives who just want to know that “everything should be done by deadline X”

By: rick gregory

rick gregory — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 23:04:23 +0000

Tony,

But there’s a difference between maximizing effective output (quick, measure that) and emphasizing hours worked. The latter is too often seen as a proxy for the former. Oh, you’re not here at 8am and leaving at 10pm? You’re deadweight.

Having people work long hours can also let management avoid asking hard questions about whether something should be done… everyone’s working 80 hours, so you have more hours to play with right? But are they working 80 hours because you’re just in that mode – to do everything you NEED to do it takes that much effort to succeed – or have you started out with the assumption that you have people for 80 hours and let tasks expand to fill that time?

It’s just as important to know what NOT to do as to get things done.

By: Tony Wright

Tony Wright — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 22:36:18 +0000

I guess I’m ultimately “pro-Calacanis”, as much as it pains me to say it.

All of the “work/life balance” people are speaking from the comfortable perspective of being either profitable or heavily funded.

If you’re in a fresh startup with and bank balance moving rapidly in the wrong direction, you’ve effectively jumped off a cliff and are assembling an airplane on the way to the ground. Presumably, you want similarly motivated people with you… That means MAXIMIZING EFFECTIVE OUTPUT. Period.

And no, working 14 hours a day 7 days a week is NOT generally a smart way to maximize your aggregate output– you’ll burn out. Each person in a startup needs to understand their own style and brains enough to find the “sweet spot” of effective output and charge forward.

By: Mike Gunderloy

Mike Gunderloy — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:22:19 +0000

Well, that’s part of my point, Duncan: I don’t think *either* calling those who are deep into their work “workaholics” or those who spend some time outside of the workplace “slackers” is a really useful part of the discussion. Talking about actual behaviors rather than throwing around labels tends to raise blood pressure less and move us closer to common understanding.

By: Duncan

Duncan — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 21:13:28 +0000

It’s interesting that you dropped the work Slacker, as this is the label the pro-Calacanis people are using. Someone who wants balance can also be a hard worker, the opposite to workaholic is not slacker, there’s a variety of shades in between. I work long hours, probably not best for my health (others have called me a workaholic) and yet I endevour to have balance every day, from taking my son to school, a walk at lunch time, attending the odd school events, playing Wii with my son, going on the odd outing, none of that makes me a slacker and I’m furious that others would use that label.

By: Chris

Chris — Sat, 08 Mar 2008 20:16:05 +0000

David at 37Signals made some really good points. No matter what situation you are in – a startup or an established organization – balance is needed.

I agree here though. Long hours can be a good for a short period when trying to meet a specific goal (‘bursty’). But I think the best thing is to recognize when it’s time to cut back and make other things in life the priority.