Comments on: Open Thread: When Do You Walk Away?

By: Jeff Yablon

Jeff Yablon — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 12:04:26 +0000

My company is in the busines of dealing with tasks that have become difficult, and almost by nature that means our clients are difficult to deal with since they are operating from a place of stress.

Know what? almost anyone can be made an easier-to-work-with client by doing something simple: be honest. BRUTALLY honest, if necessary. Simply by telling our clients exactly how we work, in all regards, we reduce the very real issues that this post talks about to near-zero.

Which, by the way, benefits all parties, equally.

Jeff Yablon
President & CEO
Virtual VIP

By: hyokon

hyokon — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:23:16 +0000

I made a mistake linking to Dr. Maister's site above. Here it is: davidmaister.com

By: hyokon

hyokon — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 05:19:00 +0000

I am not a designer. But, having been a management consultant and client of deisgners, this is what I would say.
“Here are two options. A: I can build a new one, which will take xx days and xx dollars. B: I can fix the current one, as you said, which will take xx days and xx dollars. (Plus other qualitative pros and cons.) I think A is better for you. What would you like?”

When you have these kinds of problems, ask David Maister, the expert in professional services. I think he still answers your question online/email for free. His book “True Professionalism”, which I eventually translated into Korean edition, really helped me a lot when I was facing difficult issues.

By: Timmy

Timmy — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 02:27:51 +0000

I think it depends. Sometimes a good base of code can be behind a bad design, and its worth working on it (and sometimes can save the client money).

My rule of thumb is to check under the hood before I make the call.

By: Matt Platte

Matt Platte — Thu, 06 Mar 2008 00:33:02 +0000

I’ve fixed fence, in the 1960’s. It was a horrid experience and I hated it. Never anything solid to attach new wire to, etc. Always cold, muddy or beastly hot and humid.

And, the customer is not always right.

Whoever started that demented meme needs to be forced to fix fence for an entire year.

By: ben

ben — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 21:17:10 +0000

I’m with everybody else – keep the best, throw the rest away, and offer a realistic quote. If you get the job, it means you did an excellent job of educating the prospect.

This is one of the principal reasons why comps and exhaustive documentation are specifically listed as deliverables. If the client paid their bills, they get all the assets, and AFAIC they should have the freedom to choose whomever they please to do the work. If I get their repeat business, it’s because I did it right the first time and wanted to stick around.

That said, if you’re really on top of your game and the client’s not demanding any architecture changes, creating a new (single) template and de-tabling it should take 15, maybe 20 billable hours done right, even without PSD’s. Putting the revamp into production may be a different story, and ironically one of those evolutions where you’re getting paid for your know-how rather than your labor.

If I feel good about the prospect, a “facelift” on realistic terms doesn’t bother me…

…But one thing I will NEVER do again is work miracles from midstream for a client whose job has gone non-linear. That winds up being mentally draining work for peanuts (when in fact miracles should be priced at the high end of the spectrum)!

Meanwhile, the question asked by this post really ought to be, “how do you educate a client to understand that there are several interdependent technologies under the hood?”

By: shari

shari — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:39:35 +0000

I agree as well. You absolutely have to be straight with the client, and give a realistic quote. Many clients are incapable of understanding that a quick facelift is usually anything but…if you (as the new designer) don’t have the original psd files or any other collateral, it’s like re-inventing the wheel. I try to avoid working on designs created by others because it is never worth the effort involved.

By: Grant D Griffiths

Grant D Griffiths — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:33:20 +0000

Going in and “fixing” someone’s Web site is kind of like going in and fixing fence. (Sorry, grew up on a farm) It is almost better to go in and build from scratch.

By: Ed

Ed — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 20:22:44 +0000

I agree with frankiejr. Let the potential client know up front if the structure is a problem, and that you’ll have to charge more for it. Don’t be afraid to give them the real price. If they decline, it’s probably a good thing.

By: frankiejr

frankiejr — Wed, 05 Mar 2008 19:58:34 +0000

I give realistic estimates based on the code I’ll be working with, so if I have to deal with something horrible like that it’d be worth my while. It also works as a deterrent for clients that are looking for the “cheap way out.”