Open Thread: Do You Crave Offline Web Apps?
June 6th, 2007 (1:40pm) Anne Zelenka 26 Comments
I may be in a minority, but I don’t hunger for offline access to my web applications. I don’t fly on planes all that much, and when I do I either read some dead tree ware or work using desktop tools like MS Word. When I work at cafés, I choose those that have free wi fi. I have Internet access as much or more than I need it. I’m sure my family would be happy, in fact, if my web access were cut off at 6 pm each night not to come back on until the next morning.
We’ve seen a number of efforts launched around moving web apps offline. There’s Apollo, Adobe’s web/desktop hybrid development platform. There’s Zimbra’s offline client that uses Apache Derby as its local database. Firefox 3 will include offline support. And of course, most recently, Google announced Google Gears, and showed how it could work with offline Google Reader.
Dare Obasanjo points out another reason to be skeptical about the chances for offline web applications: because it’s a major technical challenge to create them. It’s hard to keep data synchronized across the desktop and the web:
I don’t consider myself some sort of expert on data synchronization protocols but it seems to me that there is a lot more to figuring out a data synchronization strategy than whether it should be done based on user action or automatically in the background without user intervention. It seems that there would be all sorts of decisions around consistency models and single vs. multi-master designs that developers would have to make as well. And that’s just for a fairly straightforward application like Google Reader. Can you imagine what it would be like to use Google Gears to replicate the functionality of Outlook in the offline mode of Gmail or to make Google Docs & Spreadsheets behave properly when presented with conflicting versions of a document or spreadsheet because the user updated it from the Web and in offline mode?
To what extent are developers going to take on this challenge, given that for many web applications, online access is good enough and doesn’t introduce data synchronization issues? I ask myself that, then I look around and note that many developers are taking on this challenge. A bunch of smart people see a future for offline web apps, even if I don’t.
Do you yearn for offline web apps? Where do you think they’ll be most useful? Which of your applications would you like to use offline, and how important is two-way synchronization of that application data to you?
26 Comments Post your own comment
Arjun Muralidharan says: June 6th, 2007 1:47pm
I personally don’t differentiate much between offline and online anymore. If I’m at a computer, it’s sually connected. In the past year the only cases I’ve encountered offline life is because I couldn’t get a wireless card working in Ubuntu… but I’m mostly at my Mac. So, no, this offline web app craze is only causing me to yawn.
David says: June 6th, 2007 2:25pm
I’m with Arjun above, and not just about computers, but devices. Everything’s connected more and more. I’m sure it’s useful for some, but I’m definitely not excited about it.
Corey says: June 6th, 2007 2:26pm
If you’re near a power outlet and have web access, it doesn’t make much difference where the app lives. I find myself online just about the same amount of time I’m awake (like the author Anne, my family would probably prefer that not be the case).
Mitch says: June 6th, 2007 2:31pm
Apollo isn’t necessarily about moving apps offline (although that’s clearly a beneficial side effect) - it’s about tighter integration with the desktop to provide a better application experience than is possible in the secured browser environment.
That being said, if you have 100% always-on broadband and access to free wifi coffee shops, perhaps offline apps are of less interest to you. However, there are many people on this planet that don’t have that access or do need to work where connectivity isn’t ubiquitously available. Developers can, of course, choose to ignore these users but they would be leaving themselves open to competition from those who don’t.
And, yes, developing offline synchronization is technically challenging. So what? That’s why developers get paid the big bucks.
Dave says: June 6th, 2007 2:34pm
I’m also not really seeing the big deal about offline web apps - I’ve got desktop apps for the things I really want to do offline.
And those are pretty much things like Office apps, and private financial data that I don’t want to store on the Web. So an offline web app wouldn’t really help with those.
Now, for people with limited Web access or poor connections, I can see the appeal. I’m not one of those people, but I can imagine it’s not fun trying to find your important information that’s only in Gmail when your connection drops out again.
Gary says: June 6th, 2007 3:29pm
Hi, I went to the Google Sydney Developer Day and I was thinking similar things. I was thinking we are getting more and more connected so there’s not much point. Google are a great example with their blanket wifi coverage in San Fran.
As for the ‘what if I am on a plane’ - last time I took a signficantly long flight where having the internet would have been handy, I had it! (see picture at link)- http://g2007.com/blog/gary/archives/2006/02/g30000com/
Farhan says: June 6th, 2007 3:36pm
Most of the posts i see here are people from advanced countries where wireless is available at most places.
I live in Pakistan, and even my broadband is’nt that realiable from one of the best companies ( goes of for a hour atleast every day ) and wireless is’nt available at more then one or 2 places in my city. So offline access to some of the web apps i use is very important to me and i am guessing to loads of other people who are from not so advance countries. I just started usnig RememberTheMilk.com todo list today because it added offline support via google gears.
So while offline access may not be important to people from some countries, it is very important for loads of people from the other parts of the world.
Matt_ says: June 6th, 2007 4:32pm
Its essential that Google Apps has a offline component that detects that you are indeed of line and constantly syncs with the servers (when available) if they serouly want to compete with Office type apps
Allen Gregory says: June 6th, 2007 4:40pm
People in developing countries are not the only people who need offline webapps. I have broadband at home but I know of only 2 free hotspots in my city and neither are at places I would really like to work. Google Gears seems like it will great for when I want catch up on my RSS feeds but am not near a hotspot. It will probably be less important in 5-10 years when even small towns in the US will have WiFi but for now it is a great idea and will continue to be used in other countries.
Spud says: June 6th, 2007 4:52pm
Matt - I think that’s the other way round. I think MS has to seriously consider improving on the “office live” package if it wants to avoid seeing google docs and sheets take a significant chunk of it’s trade. Bear in mind that google’s package is around 30% of the functionality of word+excel, but then 90% of office users use less than 20% of the app.
thelocomono says: June 6th, 2007 5:09pm
Actually, I do crave offline web applications to write my thoughts down when I am away from the Internet or my computer, its called a notepad. :)
wlw says: June 6th, 2007 5:33pm
As reliable as online apps are becoming, they’re still slower and usually less powerful than desktop apps, even with a fast connection. I was trying online-only for a while, but ended up going back to plain old desktop (Excel) when I found instant synching to an online service (I love DriveHQ for this) to keep my documents current on all of my computers.
Aaron B. Hockley says: June 6th, 2007 5:53pm
In general it doesn’t matter to me, since I don’t have a laptop and my internet connection is up 99.99+% of the time.
Laura says: June 6th, 2007 5:56pm
Being internetless for a week (thanks comcast!!!) made me realize how useful it would be to have some of my web apps offline. I keep all of my contacts in highrise so I found myself having to buy a cup of coffee to use ancafe with internet to look up someones phone number. It also served as a reminder to BACK UP all the data I have online.
One Mouth Band says: June 6th, 2007 6:02pm
There must be a market or these companies wouldn’t be going there. Since you asked, I struggle constantly with the online/offline thing. I have a laptop at my side pretty much all the time now, but I’m not in a city. Most of the places I go make cellphone reception difficult at best (I’d love an receptionless version of Jott!), let alone free wi-fi. And while we’re at it, which airports have FREE wi-fi in the US? In my travels, maybe 1/3rd.
brklynsurfer says: June 6th, 2007 8:59pm
I would love offline access to 30boxes.com and Gmail and google maps/ directions
I will not get a 3G wireless card and sometimes even in cafe’s the wifi is spotty.
Rob O. says: June 6th, 2007 9:09pm
I’m a bit blinded by the convenience of online apps to see much real value in offline versions of same. I really appreciate, for example, that I can check mail (Gmail), read RSS feeds (Google Reader), jot down a few notes (Google Notebook), and even post entries to my website (Blogger) from any browser, anywhere, anytime!
I geuss you could say I’ve drunk the Google Kool-Aid, eh?
Davis says: June 6th, 2007 9:26pm
Omnipresence is a my key factor in using productivity online apps. For me offline productivity apps, in order to be efficient, have to be at least portable via usb or smartphones.
Oscar Berg says: June 6th, 2007 11:14pm
Honestly, how many of you are actually using online productivity apps for wordprocessing, spreadsheets and presentations - and not using desktop apps in parallel? I believe reliability, performance and mobility (when you’re on the move with your computer but cannot access the internet) to be the main drivers for moving online productivity apps offline. For calendars, contacts, mail etc it usually ok to only use online apps. You probably have a this information redundant somewhere else anyway, as in your mobile phone. For online productivity apps, I see the real value when it comes to collaboration.
Mani says: June 7th, 2007 1:03am
Offline availability of applications and data is quite valuable and is not something new.
I am no great fan of IBM, but IBM Lotus Domino platform provided an excellent albeit proprietary platform to develop applications that worked online and offline, with a conflict resolution mechanism. Of course, these were not transactional applications.
Later IBM released DOLS ( Domino Offline Services ) to make Domino web applications available offline. Of course, Domino has a background replication engine.
Unfortunately, IBM is trying to sunset this technology without providing a good replacement or making it open.
And the world tries to reinvent the whole thing all over again.
It seems that more people have started realizing the limitations of web applications because of the need to be online all the time in order to use them.
Unfortunately, html/javascript applications can only have offline capability added as an afterthought, by way of plugins. Google has filled the gap by releasing gears, to some extent.
I hope web browsers also get the capability to provide resource isolation when mutiple websites are open, almost like an OS. Right now, when one website misbehaves it crashes the webbrowser, like the a single user operating system.
Paul Cooper says: June 7th, 2007 2:17am
Using web apps is fine if you live or work where there is abundant broadband connections but try living in rural Spain (like my parents do - no ADSL only 41k max dial up) and soon find out that a online apps are horrible to use if you don’t have bandwidth. I’ll certainly be trying Zimbra desktop and Google Reader via Gears next time I’m out there.
The few places I’ve been in the states (SF, Portland, Seattle, NYC, Boston) have all been pretty good at having more or less blanket wifi (plus all the *DSL type options) however even in the metropolitan areas of the UK (and other parts of Europe) wifi 3G and DSL aren’t as ubiquitous - certainly catching up quickly but not there yet.
servaas says: June 8th, 2007 5:01am
well, I tend to be online without interruption. But wouldn’t it be nice to have more offline webapps for your mobile devices ?
Online Webapplications to go offline « Tech Interest says: June 8th, 2007 5:08am
[...] WebWorkerDaily has a nice piece on it, too. [...]
Vijay says: June 9th, 2007 11:33pm
I agree disconnected from internet is a small use case.
Desktop platforms like Dekoh bridge a crucial gap in web applications. As far as the website is concerned, the user is as good as offline if he/she is not on their site (few exceptions like Yahoo, Google who have a tray icon that pops up when there is an email, calendar event…). The web is a request-response mechanism initiated from user clicks. Using Dekoh platform you can break this. Developers and websites can offer valuable services to the user when the user is not on their site. This is more important now than ever before, considering the user interest in number of web based services is growing. This cannot be achieved by just making web applications offline thru Google gears or something like that.
Vijay
Dekoh
Vijay says: June 9th, 2007 11:40pm
Before, someone says every website can create a tray icon reminder, let me answer that. Desktop prolifiration (startup programs, desktop icons, tray icons) is a big issue. Most people dont like too many things running all the time. Desktop platform (Dekoh) aggregates these. Example, install any number of Dekoh apps, it will only run one process, create one icon. It is also about creating a seamless user experience on desktop and web.
Vijay
Dekoh
Offline Applications: A Brighter Future Than You Think « Web Worker Daily says: August 29th, 2007 4:00pm
[...] be a big future for offline apps. Web Worker Daily has hosted some interesting discussions on the topic, with very good input from the readers. One of the common positions that naysayers take is that [...]